If you are open to it, there is no limit to the fascinating people that you can meet in the city of St. Louis, and Efrem Negash, a mathematician and math instructor at Central Visual Performing Art High School and St. Louis Community College at Forest Park, is no less one of them.

Mr. Negash is a heartfelt man with a profound understanding of the underlying truths. I think that this is true for most individuals who are preoccupied by numbers, that they strive to understand how things come together, food, cultures, societies, etc. I have had the opportunity to speak with Efrem on a portion of these things, and his perceptions are always keen.

It may seem like somewhat of a stretch to feature an individual whose background is mathematics on a site that is devoted primarily to interviewing creatives, but I think that the connection will become apparent by the time you finish reading Efrem’s interview. After all, who better to illustrate the similarities between seemingly disparate subjects than a person whose mind approaches the world as if expressing unifying formulas?

After all, “To learn mathematics is to do mathematics.”

ORJ- Eritrea, as I have come to learn, is a very interesting country in Africa with a history stretching back to some of mankind’s earliest civilizations. However, over the last few decades, it has experienced myriad changes, from a revolution for political independence to constructing an emerging industrialized economy. What was life like for you growing up, and what brought you to the United States?

EN- I can say, for the most part, life was fairly fun growing up among brothers, sisters, cousins, aunts, friends and relatives, albeit there were some economic and other life challenges at times. Yes, as you have come to know, we [Eritreans] have an interesting, attractive and long history, but unfortunately, like many African countries, there have been countless obstacles in the economic and social development. Consequently, many Eritrean youngsters are leaving the country in search of an economic or political liberty, and mine is not different.

ORJ- Do you see St. Louis as a cross-cultural city? How does the city foster cultural exchange, and how can that be better achieved?

EN- I would say St. Louis is a relatively cross-cultural city; for instance, when I see the classes I teach, often times we have students from different economic, social, cultural, etc. background. But I also believe, as there is always a room for a change, [that] more can be attained through [programs like, foreign] exchange of students, incorporating more foreign languages at schools, and organizing multi-cultural clubs, to mention a few.

ORJ- Do you see many opportunities for involving or incorporating aspects of your heritage into your daily life, here in the States?

EN- So far, I don’t have anything that I [can] say I am deprived of by coming to the United States. It seems though that we are more family-oriented in back home than here. I guess it could be the competition, [but] life seems a little hectic and we as people tend to be more self-centered often times.

ORJ- When did you decide that mathematics was something that you wished to pursue?

EN- Honestly speaking, I [have] loved math since I was a kid, however, I didn’t even have a dream to pursue in math. This seems funny or unbelievable, but we have only one university in the whole country. On top of the high competition to join a certain major (department), some of the departments got cancelled because of a shortage in staff (instructors). So, in my case, my first choice was Statistics, and I think Math was my third choice, but Statistics was cancelled for that year (and the following three-four years). I love it though!

ORJ- Did you have an exceptional teacher that motivated this conclusion for you? If so, how?

EN- Luckily, I had really great and very inspiring instructors, both in high school and in university. One of my instructors used to say, “To learn mathematics is to do mathematics.” This is a true saying and has been as my motto every time I teach math.

ORJ- As an artist, and having associated with many other artists, I know that there is a reserved fear for mathematics shared by many creatives. Why do you think that this is, and what parallels, if any, do you see existing between art and math?

EN- Math is everywhere, [and] all the more in art. I do not know why modern artists have a fear towards math, whereas history tells us that math and art are almost two sides of the same coin. I feel and believe that math and art are inseparable. Imagine of the ancient Greeks or Egyptians, who designed and built some of the great wonders of the world like the pyramids and the Parthenon. The famous Pythagorean Theorem was first proposed and demonstrated, not using algebra (a,b,c), [but] by using visual measurements, which pretty much involves a great knowledge of art. I think the phobia towards math comes mainly because people see only the x-y-z or a-b-c variable, or the abstract side of it, but Math is an applied science which should be appreciated.

ORJ- How do you calm your students’ apprehensions about math in the classroom?

EN- This is the biggest challenge that faces me as an instructor both in college or [on the] high school level. A lot of students have math phobia. Some students have [had] a bad experience, not only with the subject matter, but also with their prior instructors, and to alleviate that, and [their] apprehension towards math, [you must] give students an opportunity to try and even learn [from] their mistakes. Learning is about making an effort, making mistakes, and learning from them. I also ask my students, “Why do you come to class?” The answer is obviously, “To learn.” But, you [can only] learn something that you don’t [already] know. If one knows everything (which is not possible), [then] he/she does not need to go to class. Therefore, I always tell them, “You come here to learn what you don’t know.” Making mistakes is thus inevitable, but learning from the mistakes is the learning that I promote. The phobia is exhibited by test anxiety, and [so] I give students a chance to re-take tests if they choose to do so. A teacher’s approach and rapport towards learners is thus a key!

ORJ- Personally, I have always revered naturally mathematic minds. Less because of the logical/analytical aspects than for the conceptual; I see math as being a sort of proxy for the complications inherit in the natural world, and it is particularly exciting for me to observe someone draw conclusions about this. How do you perceive the function of numbers in the wider scope of human understanding?

EN- This sounds to me like a philosophical question, if I understood you clearly. As I mentioned earlier, math we use; math, and of course, numbers, [are] everywhere.

ORJ- Are there answers in math for how humans across social divides (political, religious, cultural) can interact with better cohesion to common goals?

EN- Like other sectors, globalization is widely affecting the mathematics education. Therefore, even though I cannot say that there are exclusive and optimal answers for everything, I believe if people would try in one accord, for the betterment of society and common goals, there are myriad solutions for a bunch of [the] traumatic problems inundating our generation. No wonder that numbers have played an enormous role in the technologically surging world of ours, which has on one, made life fascinating and pleasurable, yet on the other hand, it has made living more intricate and exasperating. But the beauty of math is that it goes beyond language differences, political, religious, cultural, and economical divides.

Bottom-line though, I believe the answer for all is not from math or other applied sciences, but from the Almighty God, who is the creator and sustainer of all creation!

All photographs are by Jason Gray

Chicago-based pastry pro, Dinah Grossman, is a woman of many talents. She performs Tango, has a super-sharp wit, and of course, bakes delectable treats, among other things. Her business, Cheap Tart Bakery, employs the latter ability, and I imagine that a lot of people will be taking notes as her enterprise grows. I know from personal experience, that the food industry is a difficult market to be successful in, but when you have a true talent, it just shows (I didn’t).

Dinah and I met several years back, when we were both working at a job that did not utilize either of our full, innate potentials. She struck me then, as she still does, as being extremely self-assured and competent, but also accessible and adaptable. In other words, capable of seeing things from many points of view. She had traveled extensively, which struck me as as remarkable for her age at the time.

She once gave me a short story of hers entitled, Tucson Days, which illuminated the extraordinary thoughts of a few ordinary people grasping for a glimpse of the profound and hoping to find it underlining the unremarkable reality of life. The story is written in a fluid prose that borders on something Kerouac would have been fortunate to contrive during one of his long typewriter benders. There is a bit of Updike in there as well. Thankfully, I still have this copy; a short excerpt:

“I wasn’t sure what any of this had to do with an impending nuclear explosion, so I sat and watched the sun melt away, glancing at Hershel’s face for clues. Moshe picked at a hangnail. Hershel, who was nodding in grave understanding at Garrison, apparently found it all terribly relevant. After a while we climbed down off the roof and Garrison got on his bicycle and rode off into the dark.”

So, what does all of this about Dinah have to do with tarts? In my opinion, everything.

French Cream Tart

ORJ- In a world seemingly obsessed with the cupcake, what made you go the way of the tart?

DG- I’ve never really understood why cupcakes caused the frenzy they did (do?). I associate cupcakes with boxed mixes and school bake sales and, to be frank, the “gourmet” versions that have proliferated aren’t so far from that stereotype. Cupcakes don’t take a great deal of skill to make, and it always frustrates me to see people elevate something so pedestrian to the level of “haute cuisine.” A cupcake is a cupcake, a hot dog is a hot dog. Those things can be good, but I think they should be appreciated for what they are. Instead cupcakes and cupcake bakeries have been idolized in the last few years. They’ve acquired a cult-like following that borders on religious fanaticism, and religious fanatics of any ilk have always rubbed me the wrong way. Tarts, on the other hand, in addition to being delicious, take some skill to create. You can see and taste real craftsmanship when it comes to pastry, and I appreciate that. They’re endlessly variable and versatile, and have traditionally been served in many cultures as both everyday fare and more sophisticated desserts. I’ve always enjoyed making them, and I’ve always enjoyed eating them.

ORJ- You once told me, something to the effect of, “Intelligent people do not look for work, they make up jobs for themselves.” This message had a tremendous impact on my personal thinking about work and life, but most importantly, it freed me from believing that I had to follow the traditional path toward self-reliance (ie. college degree, to entry-level job, to pay your dues one 9-5 day at a time, to eventual success). Is Cheap Tart Bakery an expression of this mindset, and if yes, how so?

DG- I’d say Cheap Tart is very much an expression of that idea, although the bakery’s creation wasn’t that linear. When I moved to Chicago I had just graduated from college, and the already pretty wretched job market was flooded with people just like me–new graduates without a lot of experience looking for entry-level jobs. I was able to piece together a living by freelancing as a writer, and teaching and performing tango, and I also had part-time work as a personal assistant, a job I could fit in between freelancing gigs. But a few years of that kind of work left me pretty worn out. While it allows flexibility, that lifestyle doesn’t provide stability, and there is something to be said for a stable income (and health insurance). It’s all about finding a good balance. About a year ago I started tossing around the idea of opening a bakery, in large part because I saw other people doing it, and recognized that the skills I’d acquired working as a pastry chef and baker in restaurants over the years had given me more than enough experience to compete with what was already out there. I started out making a wedding cake for a friend, and things snowballed from there. I didn’t do a single thing to promote the bakery, but word of mouth spread, and that was followed by some good press, and pretty soon the thing had taken on a life of its own. While I wouldn’t say I’ve achieved the level of stability I’d like, having a clear goal, ie. the success of this business, has freed me in new ways, and at least psychologically that clarity can be stabilizing.

ORJ- How has your past influenced your business? Do you see any correlation between your previous forays, into Tango, freelance writing, web design, etcetera, and your current venture?

DG- In all the jobs I’ve done there’s been a lot of learning as I go. I’m a big believer in saying “yes” first and then figuring out how to achieve what’s been asked of me later. Working as a freelancer has taught me to have confidence in my abilities, most of all my ability to learn what I don’t already know. Saying “I can’t” gets you nowhere. I’ve also always sought out work that allowed me to be creative in some way. I’ve learned over the years that how I’m being creative is less important than if I am, which is to say it doesn’t matter in some respects if I’m designing a website, baking pastries, or dancing. And I don’t think that’s unique to who I am. I think we are all innately creative, weather we realize it or not, or whether we call it creativity or some other thing. The people who thrive in life are those who have found a way to channel their creativity productively, whether that be for financial gain, or simply the satisfaction of making, thinking, or doing.

ORJ- What was it like writing for the A.V. Club? Did you feel pressure to write a certain way?

DG- Writing for the A.V. Club was not as much fun as you’d think. For an office that’s supposed to generate comic material there was a marked lack of laughter. The writing that I was doing was primarily for the food section, which meant there was actually pressure NOT to be funny. After I stopped working as an intern and freelanced from outside the office, there was a little more freedom to experiment. But not much. It was pretty straight, as far as writing goes.

ORJ- What did you learn about food/foodie culture while writing about it?

DG- I learned that I hate that such a thing as “foodie culture” exists. What I always loved about food and cooking was that it was such an important part of life and culture as a whole–survival, happiness, growth. But I find people who call themselves “foodies” have isolated themselves from what food is really about. It becomes all about extremes–how much, how outlandish, how exclusive–and ends up being more about the experience of being seen somewhere or being able to say you did something than it is about the food itself. I also learned that the kind of writing I was doing, which didn’t really allow for total freedom to say what I truly felt, was more stifling than liberating. I had, and still have, a lot of things to say about how we eat in this country, about food, about enjoying the acts of growing, cooking, and eating. But restaurant reviews (with the sharp corners sanded down by editors) aren’t the place for big picture opinions.

Apple Tart

ORJ- Given the distracted focus of society today, how do you see your pastries/food, or food in general, fitting in? What role might it play, or what benefit does it offer (aside from filling up an empty stomach)?

DG- If everyone cooked one meal a day, the world would be a much better place. Food can be a real equalizer. We all need it to survive, and across cultures there has always been so much sharing, trading, borrowing of traditions and methods. I can’t think of a better way to learn about someone than through food. I think about that when I come home and smell that someone in my building is cooking dinner. I wonder what they’re making, how they’re cooking it, and think about how much could be learned if we all opened our doors a little more often. I find it fascinating that I know the people in my building and in my block far less well than I knew neighbors miles away from the house I grew up in in Maine. I’ve found that more than any other job I’ve had, telling people that I run a bakery is a real conversation starter. People’s eyes light up. Food is something we can all relate to, and there’s something comforting about bakeries. People remember the bakeries of their childhoods, their neighborhoods, their whole lives. I hope one day that Cheap Tart will have a retail location that serves as much as a community center as it does a bakery. To be a solid part of a community, that’s the real goal.

ORJ- Do you see food as a conversation starter?

DG- See above

ORJ- How has baking changed your life?

DG- Baking has gotten me jobs in restaurants in interesting places (Alaska, coastal Maine). It’s a skill that’s determined the work I do for pay, and my outlook on life: Sometimes you need to be methodical, other times the most beautiful things can result from experimentation, chance, and chemistry.

Pie Pops

ORJ- Where, on Earth, did your delicious-looking concept for the “Pie Pops” originate?

DG- I had seen versions online of what were, essentially, glorified Pop-Tarts. I thought there must be a way to make single servings of pie (something to compete with a cupcake!) that were convenient to eat, but maintained, more accurately, the proportions of a regular pie. Much experimentation and a lot of Popsicle sticks later, Pie Pops in their current form were born!

ORJ- Do you have any new concoctions waiting to be debuted?

DG- I’ve got a few things up my sleeve, but they’re still in the R and D stage.

ORJ- How can readers purchase your culinary creations?

DG- Check out our website, www.cheaptart.com, to see what our menu offers. To place an order give us a call at 773.344.1998, or email your order to sweet@cheaptart.com. We ask for 48 hours notice, and we deliver within Chicago!

All images are provided by Dinah Grossman, and are used by her permission.  Food photographs are by Garrick Peterson.

Ramon Norwood, aka Radius, is not an enigma; you meet him once, and you understand him for life. This is not to say that Norwood is simple, just consistent about his passions. After all, how could someone who sites their influences as “everything and nothing” be simple, or inconsistent?

It’s somehow true that Radius’ music embodies both the present and the absent, and that is truly a difficult thing to phrase with words. His creations fill even as they hollow.

Ramon and I have known each other for over ten years, and in that time, we have had a knack for drifting away and then crossing paths again at improbable intervals. This too, is a possible comparison to his music; the evanescence followed by the unexpected resurgence. Maybe not.

Nevertheless, one thing about this music is for certain true, whether you are after the everything or the nothing, Radius has something for you.

Radius: Hyde Park (I Miss You) from Jovan J on Vimeo.

ORJ- Your music seems to draw from a lot of [musical and non-musical] sources, from Afro-Beat to Chicago’s largely African-American South Side, how do you distill this broad range, and why is this approach intrinsic to what you are trying to express?

RM- Well, to be honest, I never really thought of it all that deep; I agree it is true that what I express is a reflection of various sources, but I believe that Chicago, as a whole, helped me arrive to that point. Chicago is diverse in so many ways from hood to hood, that I couldn’t help to be influenced and express a variety within my art. I have lived all over Chicago and amongst many types of people, so it is only natural that my art reflects that. Also, being that I come from a hiphop-rooted background, I was exposed to a variety of ideas coming up, including various types of music and culture. My main goal is to stay true to my self, and always pay respects to where I come from, within doing that, everything else tends to fall in place on its own.

ORJ- Who/what would you site as your biggest three musical influences?

RM- I used to always say a list of names, but I look at things a little different now. My family indeed is a big source, from cousins exposing me to groups like De La Soul, [A] Tribe Called Quest and Wu Tang Clan, to my Grandfather always playing Jazz on the family driving excursions, to my friends in elementary school hipping me to Nirvana, NIN, Green Day, Radiohead, etc.; I’m just fortunate to come up within diversity, [and] in addition to that, being able to travel when I can and seeing the world from outside/in or inside/out, depending on how you look at it. Now and days tho, I really do owe a lot to discovering more and more Jazz and also house music. I am grateful to have really great friends within my circle.

ORJ- Growing up where you did, and given the South Side’s longstanding musical heritage and its impact on you, do you feel that it is something of a birthright for you to produce music?

RN- Hmmmm, great question; never thought of that either, but I will have to say, yes, of course. I met a great deal of cats on the southside [who were] heavy into music, especially going to Kenwood Highschool and digging for records in Dr. Wax (R.I.P.) and Second Hand Tunes (which is now Hyde Park Records). Looking back, I can say it was only natural that I would gravitate toward creating music. It was always around me, [and] I respected hiphop culture so much because it opened the door to so much artistic expression for me, and it was right there within reach on the southside. I used to go to The Promontory Point in high school, and would breakdance, and try to freestyle, etc. All of it’s embedded within me, all of this made me who I am today; it’s only right that I embrace it and expand it.

ORJ- So what led you to your current residence in Los Angeles?

RN- Change of scenery, fresh air; tho, Los Angeles is the most polluted city in the U.S., it is a true statement [about why I moved here], hahaha. I wanted to try something different. I grew up in Chicago; I had been there my whole life. I also wanted to get away from the torturous winters. I feel that coming from Chicago, which is a super, major city, you can really only go to L.A. or N.Y.C., if you are trying to pursue this type of career, at least within the U.S. I had a couple connections and good friends out here in L.A., plus, from looking in from the outside, I was always curious to see how cats out here were making it work. NYC is def on my list, I’m going to try and make it out there for some time next year. We shall see where life takes me.

ORJ- How do you see the broad culture and social mix of that city as playing into your art? Or, does it not affect what you do?

RN- I don’t think it has [had] a super effect on my artistic expression. I am still moving with the same goals and ideas that I had in Chicago. I wear Chicago more on my sleeve than ever before, now that I am out here. I won’t be here much longer either, tho. I never planned to become a part of this “scene”; I acknowledge and respect what people are trying to do within music and art out here, but it’s really not for me. If anything, it makes me want to go harder at my art, makes me want to combine/connect more with more artists each and everyday, and not just for myself, but for those back home pushing toward their goals.

Radius @Black Gate Sessions 7/25/09 with Gilead 7 from 400 + on Vimeo.

ORJ- A long time ago, you told me that you saw the focus of most urban music on vocalization as somewhat unfortunate; that there was a strength and a history to the instrumentals of this type of music, which was at current being surreptitiously downplayed and/or left out of the cultural dialogue. Do you still feel that it is your focus to make music that does not cater specifically to the human voice?

RN- I embrace it all. I respect and appreciate it all. I will admit I do listen to and collect more music that is instrumental, whether it be Jazz or electronic, but I am definitely open minded to it all. In the beginning of my career, I had my share of emcees I was trying to work with that would take forever to get a song done, which detoured me and forced me to go a more instrumental route. I also personally have some ideas of things I would like to do vocally, I just haven’t gotten around to it yet. In addition to that, I have some people I am working with back home that are good at expressing themselves in that manner, so keep in tune for that in the near future.

11 Degrees is No Joke Promo from Jackson Arcade on Vimeo.

ORJ- Will you explain a bit about how you make your music? What tools do you use, what is your process, etc.?

RN- My process is never complex, I don’t even have a specific way. Most of the time, it starts with playing a record and finding parts that stand out to me to sample, so then, I will start with a loop. Other times, its messing around with the keyboard, or tapping a drum beat on the table, my leg, or just in my head. I watch movies and hear a sound or some dialog, and I will grab it and save it for the right time, too.

My setup has been the same for at least 6-7 years. Most of it has to do with not having the money to get some new toys I want. Trust me, there are a few toys I would love to have, and I know for sure it would enhance my output even more, but I’m grateful for what I do have because I make it work. I still mainly use the Akai Mpc 1000 for everything. She is my number one baby for my in-house production and stage performance. My main goal is to make it sound bigger than what it is, I love to fool the listener, hahaha! I recently did a show out here in L.A., and some cats had a ridiculous amount of gear on stage, but they barely touched any of it; I just don’t get it when people do that, other then, I guess, to show off.

ORJ- Where can readers find your music to either purchase or download?

RN- Various places; [although,] everything is real limited. I have projects with smaller labels, with small pressings. I am shopping tracks to various labels everyday, looking for a stronger output. I should have a 45/7inch coming out, hopefully by or before Fall [2011], from The Secret Life of Sound (TSLOS), which is also the label responsible for my 2008 debut, Neighborhood Suicide. You can also find some copies of that online via the TSLOS website, or Amazon, or Discogs, I believe. I have a project coming out pretty much around the same time as the record [that] I mentioned earlier, with electronic producer Leo 123, who is known for his work alongside Eliot Lipp as Dark Party. Our group together is LAGOS. Our Ep, of the same name, will be out soon.

I update my SoundCloud regularly; the new one is [here], and the other is [here]. I also have a bandcamp, which I will be updating more, soon, [here]. My Radiushead EP, of Kid A/Amnesiac Radiohead tracks from 2009, is still up for grabs here.

ORJ- When we met, you were working as a barista at a café in Chicago. If your music were an espresso beverage, which one would it be and why?

RN- Real funny that you ask that. I actually never liked coffee and I still don’t; I have always been a tea connoisseur. I am also a huge Chai Tea Latte fan. I would say that would be the drink because its rich, semi dark, smooth, sweet yet spicy, too. I feel that defines me and my sound in a nutshell.

All image and video content provided by, and used with the permission of, Ramon Norwood.

Brian and I met under the oddest of circumstances, we both were working for a short time selling luggage for a retailer in Chicago’s Water Tower Place. Hawking high-end luggage was a stretch for me, so I can’t imagine what exact circumstances brought Mr. Motl to be employed at this particular shop on Michigan Avenue. In any case, we soon found common ground in the Dot Game (I am still the champ, Brian), and in playing music over the store’s sound system that was wildly offensive to our clientele. Sometime during that year, I got married, and my mother selected Brian to be the human tripod for her video camera, another unlikely partnership for Brian (the result is the only surviving video record of my wedding ceremony).

All of this is relevant only to illustrate that Brian is the type of guy who is at home anywhere, despite the fact that, for at least as long as I have known him, his singular obsession is with an object that is designed specifically to take you places.

I had hoped for this interview to be a really thorough introduction for the outsider into Brian’s signature world of bikes, beer, and anti-bon vivants, but he responded in typical Brian style by keeping things painfully simple and direct. I couldn’t even squeeze a picture of a bike or two that he has built out of him…

Oh well, the world is probably better off not trying to nail down what makes a guy like him tick. So do yourself a Brian and make yourself at home, pop open a beer, read this exceedingly brief interview, and then get back on the road where you belong.

ORJ- If you had to name them, what are the three main things that your life revolves around?

BM- The things my life revolves around, if I had to name them, would I guess be bikes, music, and, um, I guess, good beer.

ORJ- What spurred your interest in bike culture? What is its relationship to the streets/urban environment?

BM- When I lived in Cincy [Cincinnati] my first roommate road bikes, and kind of opened the door for me to cycling. I think the relationship to streets for cycling is due to the fact that you ride on the street, and that’s also why there is more urban cycling.

ORJ- Have you ever found yourself in tough spots in cities? Will you share one of those experiences?

BM- Depends on what you call “a tough spot”. If you mean, like, a ruff area of town, then yes, I think I tend to live near, or in, ruff areas. If you are talking about being jumped, I think someone tried to jump me once, but I just walked off; or [if you are talking about] just getting into a fight on the sidewalk with some bro trying to start shit with you and your friends, well I do live in Columbus “OSU”, OH. Drunk bros are always trying to fuck with you when you are riding your bike or even just walking. I hate college life.

ORJ- What is a bike krew? Do you belong to one?

BM- I’m in a bike club I would say. We hang out, drink, and have bike events. I feel a krew, or crew, is something related to fixie bike culture. Though the bike club I’m in is Mosh and Brew Cycle Crew. Haha -kind of a play on the 80′s youth crew.

ORJ- Where did you learn how to build bikes? What was the training like?

BM- I kind of started teaching myself how to build up bikes, single speeds and fixies, but then, I decided I really wanted to know how you work on bikes. So, I went to Portland, OR and went to the United Bicycle Institute. Thought I would like to try frame-building sometime. The training was hard at times, but it helped get me some experience to get my foot in the door.

ORJ- Can bicycles be considered art? Why?

BM- Bikes can be art in my mind. It really depends on what the person is doing with the bike or what is on it. I guess it’s all in the eyes of the beholder.

ORJ- Who has better pizza; Chicago, Cincinnati, Columbus, or Portland? [fact: Brian has a tattoo of a slice of pizza on the inside of one of his arms, an ode to one of his loves]

BM- I’d have to say that Cincy and C-bus don’t really have there own style of pizza, so it have to say it’s between Chicago and NYC. I’m going to say Chicago cause it’s hard to find good, Chicago-style pizza outside of Chicago. Anyone and everyone is making NYC style. Though, Cincy does have Dewey Pizza, which is really good, and Columbus has Hound Dogs and Clever Crow. When it comes to pizza, I’ll take them all.

All photos stolen from Brian’s Facebook profile.

William C. Hutton, Jr. is a St. Louis-based photographer with the unique ability to tell a compelling story with his images. He has been at work since the 1970′s, creating a collection of photographs that he consolidates into series that are determined by where his creative interests lead him. In the time that he has been producing art, the world of photography has experienced massive shifts, which have increased the available subject matter for the photographer exponentially. This is most readily obvious when observing the shift in approach, content and materials between Edward Steichen’s monumental “Family of Man” exhibit (1955) and John Szarkowski’s groundbreaking “New Documents” exhibit (1967), both at the Museum of Modern Art.

While “Family of Man” summated the best of documentary photography, in the time since its inception until its primacy as news reportage, “New Documents” revealed the potential of documentary photography to move beyond news reporting (video had largely replaced its importance) and suggested how each photographer might take a unique and expressive approach to the media. It is this later stage of street photography that Mr. Hutton, Jr.’s work fits into, with peers like Lee Friedlander, Garry Winogrand, Diane Arbus (all of the “New Documents” show) and more contemporarily, William Eggleston and Brian Ulrich. William Eggleston is an important artist to mention because it was he who broke open the use of color photography as a viable fine art format, and it was he who almost single-handedly challenged the established canon of acceptable subject matter.

What’s remarkable about William C. Hutton, Jr.’s work is that he seems to have produced images that instinctively paralleled the shifts in photography almost as they were happening. Recently, William came into my radar, and I had the chance to conduct a short interview with him. Read it, and see more of Mr. Hutton. Jr.’s work, after the jump.

ORJ- What is your relationship with the arts?

WCH- I enjoy sampling our human experience through the eyes of visual artists. I strive to create art, so viewing the work of others provides inspiration to follow my own path. Whenever I exhibit, I realize getting to know other artists is invaluable.

ORJ- How long have you been photographing, and how did you get started?

WCH- I began photographing late in 1970 when my wife gave me a SLR for Christmas. I photographed my newborn son for his grandparents, as they lived far away. I soon realized I enjoyed photographing strangers, as well. Photography provided me with a creative outlet when I must have needed one. At that time I really didn’t think about photojournalism, art or developing a style… I just did what interested me at the time.

ORJ- Do you have a general approach, in terms of gathering your aesthetic statement?

WCH- There are three aspects I consciously attempt to address. First, I want to leave a record of life and people during my time and place. Also, I would like a viewer to pause and reflect on the people in my photographs. My goal is to inspire viewers to imagine a ten-second, short story about the subject(s). And some of my work explores light’s form and shape as it creates shadows and reflections.

ORJ- What do you see as photography’s role, in art; in life?

WCH- Here are two quotes that express my views on this question.

“An artist’s duty is to reflect the times.”- Nina Simone

“If you want to make photographs, all you do is point the camera at whatever you wish; click the shutter whenever you want. If you want to judge a good photograph, ask yourself: Is life like that? The answer must be yes and no, but mostly yes.”-Charles Hebutt

ORJ- Who are some of your influences, or else, who are some artists that you admire?

WCH- My grandfather was a dedicated amateur, and no doubt, his love for photography rubbed off on me. My greatest influences have to be the photographers and photo editors of Life Magazine from the late 1950s through the mid 1960s. I’m sure I read every issue during that time.

I greatly admire the work of Garry Winogrand and William Eggleston. Brian Ulrich is a contemporary photographer I admire, but Sally Mann has to be the photographer I admire most.

tableful, © Toni Tiller

In life, there are certain people that you meet whose trajectory seems to point them perfectly at their intended destinations; people unconfused about their purpose and seemingly unfettered by the baggage that you yourself carry on your own slow journey.  These persons do not stop to read the road signs; they plunge ahead, assured by their own inner compass. These individuals, few as they are, tend also to constantly inspire, albeit often less for following the rules than for breaking them. Toni Tiller is one of these people.

Tiller is an artist, but not of the traditional vein.  For instance, she does not concern herself with the typical game of galleries and exhibitions, preferring instead to showcase her new work online to a growing base of supporters (many of who tune in for her wednesday contributions to the arts blog, www.Darteboard.com).  Often, she has traded her work with other artists, their cultural esteem/art world-cred notwithstanding. In other cases, she has even allowed herself to become the object of the art. For her, the art is always front and center, while the commercial value of it is of very little concern.

Since 2006, when I first met her online, I have witnessed Toni’s virtual following grow from a mass of strangers on an arts forum, to blossom into a real bouquet of friends and fans alike.  Despite all of her bohemian tendencies (or maybe because of them), I can imagine that she would be the first person that many people would choose to take with them to a deserted island. And why not, if nothing else, I am sure that she would tell some damn entertaining stories.

After you read her interview with One Round Jack, take a moment to explore her Flickr sets and see for yourself why I find her artwork so compelling.

ORJ- As someone who has known you online for several years, I have thought of you alternatively as a photographer, a collage artist, a former NYC club kid, a model and muse, a blogger, and a printmaker, among other things. I know now that you represent none of these things separately; that you are much rather all of them, though non-exclusively. Can you briefly explain your trajectory up until this point, and why “keeping your options open” has been such an important part of who you are as an artist?

TT- I guess I never really thought of it so much as “keeping my options open” as much as it is just the coincidental cross point of two important positions. The first being that I am essentially an experience-based person; I like doing things just for the sake of doing them, and often times the results border on being irrelevant.

The other thing is that I decided pretty early on that I had no interest in pursuing a career in art. I tried to think about it briefly, but the whole process of applying, writing artist statements, worrying about producing a consistent body of work, selling… it took me out of the experience and made me focus on results. I hated it, and now I don’t have to think about it; I can do as I please at any given moment. That freedom is essential.

murder 2, © Toni Tiller

spanner 2, © Toni Tiller

bryan, © Toni Tiller

ORJ- I first knew you as a self-portrait photographer [maybe not the right description; feel free to elaborate on this], and many of those images from when we first started conversing still stick out in my mind as exceptional. Where did you get the idea to focus the camera on yourself; was it a natural growth from your early years in front of other people’s cameras?

TT- What is funny is I never spent all that much time in front of other people’s cameras, but the few times I did just happened to be significant, and I was lucky to work with really talented people like Mario Testino, Terry Richardson, and Dale May. The truth is I am absolutely terrified of cameras, and I can be completely paralyzed by them. There are virtually no photographs of me between the ages of 5 and 18 at all.

© Mario Testino

Toni on the cover of the Godsmack debut album.

In the aftermath of club life I moved to Connecticut and I was suddenly isolated, I discovered the internet as my only means of social connection, but people still want to see you, and everyone had these absolutely horrible photographs of themselves taken in the bathroom mirror, or with one arm up in the air. We’ve all seen a lot of right armpits I think…anyway I thought, I can do better.

pink, © Toni Tiller

stuffy, © Toni Tiller

I still had all these clothes and costumes left over from club years, and I missed becoming someone new everyday, so it was the combination of isolation, the desire to create, and the opportunity to deal with something that terrified me on my own terms gave birth to this new internet thing. I was surprised that it took off as much as it did, but at that point it was still kind of a new thing, since then the internet has leveled the playing field for self portraiture and I really love that. We can all be whoever we want now.

ORJ-  These images seem rooted half-way between Nan Goldin and Cindy Sherman; any inspiration there?

TT- I had no idea who either of these people were when I started, but once I did I connected with both of them right away.

caley got mugged, © Toni Tiller

laura got stung, © Toni Tiller

ORJ- Nan Goldin’s personal relationships were a big part of her output. How have your relationships (significant and otherwise) affected your art?

TT- It’s huge, it’s everything really. All art is conversational to me, so I am always talking to someone specific regardless of the medium. The photographs were often inside jokes, or love letters, but even the collages and prints are connected to people, so when I feel lost and disconnected I can’t make anything, I am utterly dependent on my personal relationships.

a distant relative will phone you soon, © Toni Tiller

with every deed you are sowing a seed, © Toni Tiller

ORJ- When did you begin exploring collage as a medium?

TT- I started when I was really little, I would spend hours and hours cutting up magazines, it’s just pure physical pleasure. I had, and still have a box of things I have cut out that I have lugged around with me everywhere since I left home at 17.  I still sift through these images to get ideas, or stir old memories, but I picked it back up in earnest a few years ago with the fortune cookie pieces. They were so fun for awhile, but when they started to feel like work I put them down for bit, the narrative aspect had become claustrophobic for me. My work, no matter what the medium has always been heavy on narrative and I spent the last year trying hard to get away from it. I have so much respect and fascination for people who create non-representational work probably because it doesn’t come easily to me, I turned to my friend (and fellow darteboard blogger) JD Hastings in a moment of overwhelming frustration and he told me to do the opposite of what I think I should do. From there these loose scribbly things were born, but I still have no idea where that is going. We’ll see I guess.

ab 2, © Toni Tiller

jesus, © Toni Tiller

ORJ- I see a correlation between your collage work and your photo series of aging, advertising signs found on the streets of New York. Anything to that?

TT- That was a total random “Oh yeah!” moment of hindsight for me. I did the subway series again because non-rep doesn’t come naturally for me so my logic was that I would just go find the stuff and then I wouldn’t have to make it, just capture it. I usually forget I made something as soon as I finish it so when I started doing these new paper cut pieces I didn’t even remember those photos, then one day saw the connection, and it was a forehead smacker. I think it has a lot to do with the markers used to make them, people would graffiti these posters, and I was making similar marks and cutting them out, but I didn’t put it together right away.

as above, so below, © Toni Tiller

lou reed 1, © Toni Tiller

art park, © Toni Tiller

ORJ- Do you see many parallels between your work as a photographer, collagist, and print-maker?

TT- On the surface, no.  The types of images I make are all over the place, but the mental space I occupy while making them, the experience of it, and the need for conversational connection is the common thread.

ORJ- Shifting gears, what is a “club kid”, and what was the scene in NYC like, back when you considered yourself one?

TT- Back in the 90′s a club kid was someone who more or less got paid to go to nightclubs and make the scene, we were the freak show that drew in the paying bridge and tunnel crowd and set the atmosphere that allowed the owners to charge them an arm and a leg to get in the door and buy teeny weak drinks. For us it was pretty glorious for awhile, complete and total freedom to wear, do, and say whatever you wanted, an escape from whatever back woods town we were all reinventing ourselves from, there were just very few rules at all, but then it shifted gears into something darker when the drugs took over. The parties became excuses to hand out as many drugs as possible, we were all spending way more time in the bathrooms than anywhere else, and at the end most of us had pretty serious habits. You knew things were just fucked up beyond comprehension when one of us would die and the rest of us would still go out that night. Overdoses were common, and eventually it all ended abruptly and badly with a murder and tax evasion issues, but it is exactly what I signed up for.

Toni as a “club kid”.

ORJ- What made you leave that environment?

TT- External circumstances and a profound survival instinct.

ORJ- Your years as a club kid seem to me as experiences rooted in the physical realm. What led you to pursue a very different kind of experience in the internet? Has the virtual world impacted your real one?

TT- I suppose they were physical in the sense that it was a lot of corporeal stuff, sex, drugs, dancing, and costumes, but it was never an unconscious experience for me. I was always hyper aware of what was going on, what it could mean, what was being witnessed, and processing all of that information. There were childhood ambitions based around stories of the Warhol factory superstars, Studio 54, Max’s, and L.E.S. punk rock that needed to be fulfilled because I knew that it would be inherently important to me later in life.

That consciousness comes with me no matter where I am, and I learned that it also come attached to whatever physical activity I am doing, to me cleaning a bathroom or hauling heavy junk around gives me the same mental space as dancing on a go go box. It is the combination of the internal and the external that counts, and that seems to transcend location and activity.

As such, I have never seen any real separation between online life and offline life, they have seamlessly integrated, and yes it has had an enormous impact. I became an artist there, I met (and left) husband there, and have been able to expand and collaborate in ways that would otherwise be impossible.

ORJ- What was W.A.N., how did you get involved, and has it ended?

TT- W.A.N was the acronym for the world artist network on Myspace, a big boisterous group of artists, art lovers, and trolls that completely changed my world. I hooked up with them in June of ’06 I think, and I really didn’t know anything about art, or specifically art with a capital A, so it was a real crash course in immersion. From there I was able to expand my knowledge base and realize I have a point of view, and more importantly I wasn’t afraid to express it. Eventually through circumstances I became the moderator for a few years until Myspace closed groups entirely, then in a moment of masochism I started it back up on Facebook. A good idea for everyone else, but a terrible idea for me, so now Tom Bennett and Steph Gerilomatos (also darteboard authors) are running the show and I am blissfully free of that responsibility. It’s still a great place to participate and get feedback, and I prefer interacting with it on that level.

purple, © Toni Tiller

ORJ- How can readers access you and your work these days?

TT- Flickr and of course also at Darteboard.com.

All images by Toni are used by permission.

Photo by Jason Gray

“Camino” translates roughly to “path”, which could provide a basic analogy for Francesca’s relationship to art.  She is most certainly on the path of art, and in a relatively short amount of time, has traveled a long way (having co-founded/curated two apartment galleries and worked for several important arts organizations both in St. Louis and Chicago, all in less than a decade).  Still, Miss Wilmott somehow remains entirely approachable, and considers promoting emerging local artists one of the important aims of her latest involvement, Los Caminos.

Francesca and Los Caminos are but two examples of the ever-expanding, St. Louis art-scene; proof that this city along the Mississippi still has something in store for an audience fast-becoming willing to look.  If you haven’t been over to Cherokee Street lately, why not make your next trip a visit to an opening at Los Caminos?  That is, right after you read her interview below.

ORJ- What is Los Caminos, and how did it originate?

FW- Los Caminos is an apartment gallery on Cherokee Street in St. Louis. I run the space with Cole Root (who lives in the apartment) and we use the common areas of his apartment as a meeting place to exhibit, discuss, and generate contemporary art. We open new exhibitions about every two months and also host programs and events.

Cole and I worked together at the Contemporary Art Museum St. Louis about five years ago and stayed friends. Over the years we discussed different ideas we had for shows, using each other as a sounding board for projects we had in mind. When I moved back to St. Louis last May we finally got a chance to open a space together. We used the summer as a planning period to conceptualize how we would run the space, build the website, meet with artists, and organize a number of exhibitions. Our first opening was in October 2010, and as of March 2011 we have opened four exhibitions and have hosted two one-night events.

ORJ- Do you think that your project fills the proverbial “shoes” of the late Boots Contemporary Art Space (also on Cherokee Street), or that it treads upon new terrain? Why?

FW- Juan [Chavez (the creator of Boots Contemporary Art Space)] has been an important mentor to both me and Cole and his sister was actually my high school art teacher and thus also had a huge influence on me pursuing a career in the arts. Naturally, Juan is a close friend to Los Caminos and Boots has greatly inspired us. That being said, Juan has some big shoes to fill and we realize that we will never replace Boots. Los Caminos is quite different from Boots not only in its physical form (it’s on the 2nd floor rather than in a store front), but also because Boots was structured as a non-profit and Los Caminos is neither a non-profit, nor a commercial gallery. So to answer your question, I would say that we strive to continue Boot’s welcoming environment and spirit for experimentation. However, without a non-profit status, we operate quite differently and have different goals in mind.

ORJ- What advantages does an apartment gallery or exhibition space have over a conventional gallery?

FW- One of the main advantages of running an apartment gallery over a commercial or a non-profit space is that we don’t report to a board or other stakeholders. On the flipside, we also have fewer resources than such organizations and must scale back accordingly. Risk functions in two ways in an apartment gallery: since the overhead of the gallery is covered in the monthly apartment rental, there’s less of a financial risk as there’s little monetary investment on our part; additionally, the fact that it’s not an income generating model allows us to program experimental exhibitions that might not be lucrative in other venues.

ORJ- What makes St. Louis a good incubator for the arts right now?

FW- There’s so much creative talent – artists, writers, curators, musicians – in St. Louis, and I think that over the years such talent has found a community of mutual support on Cherokee Street. I’m not sure if I can specifically identify what has triggered the recent artistic growth on Cherokee Street and in St. Louis at large, but I believe that the strength of the St. Louis art scene comes from a combination of its creative talent, close-knit community, and an abundance of cheap space. Also, any competitive spirit within the St. Louis art scene seems to raise its standards, challenging us to exhibit more relevant and exciting shows.

ORJ- Do you think that this particular climate is sustainable?

FW- While I don’t believe that apartment galleries like Los Caminos are a sustainable model (or that they are designed to be), I think that the larger movement that they are part of can be sustained. It seems that the rapid growth on Cherokee Street comes from within the neighborhood itself. I don’t believe that there are outside developers coming in and plopping down galleries and shops and then taking off again. Almost everyone who is invested in Cherokee Street also lives in the neighborhood, and as a result, wants to see that this particular environment can be sustained.

ORJ-  Where does your fascination with art come from? How has your path to where you are reshaped your ideas about art, or has it?

FW- After taking my first art history class in high school, I realized that the one thing that I enjoy more than making art is studying it. Since discovering my passion for art history, I have tried to get involved in the art world in any way possible. During my undergraduate summers I worked as a Gallery Assistant at the Pulitzer and the Contemporary (where I met Cole). Though guarding galleries was not the most glamorous job, it exposed me to like-minded people who share a passion for contemporary art and for making things happen.

While in graduate school at SAIC I was also greatly influenced by the DIY mentality that pervades the Chicago art scene. In particular, my supervisor at the Hyde Park Art Center, Allison Peters Quinn, said something that stuck with me. She said that it bothers her when students say that they’d like to become curators one day. With curating, she said, you don’t wait for an invitation; instead, you should just start organizing shows in your corner of the world. After working with Allison I opened an apartment gallery (Concertina Gallery) with my friends Katherine Pill and Corinna Kirsch out of our Logan Square apartment.

ORJ-  Do you have any advice for someone inspired by your example; what tips do you have for the aspiring gallerista?

FW- If you have a passion for curating then nothing should stop you from putting on your own shows. It’s not easy (and often requires many years of schooling) to land a paid curatorial position. Plus, no one will hire you unless you have experience. So use whatever space and connections you have to organize your own shows. If you’re working with the right people then the exhibitions you curate will benefit all parties involved, and as a result, finances can be shared and become less of a burden.

ORJ-  Finally, can you share a bit about what Los Caminos has in store for the next few months?

FW- Our exhibition schedule is currently booked through the fall. After our current show, Do the Right Thing, we are exhibiting the work of St. Louis photographer Dave Johnson alongside Chicago mixed-media artist Dominic Paul Moore (who also runs his own apartment gallery, ebersmoore). During the summer, we’re hoping to do a film series, perhaps projecting onto our large bay window that looks onto Cherokee street. We’ll kick off our fall season with a group exhibition that Cole has been developing for some time. We’re also hoping to develop more public programming (artists talks, a bike tour of alternative spaces, etc.), so if you have any ideas for programming, please send them our way!

All photos featuring Francesca Wilmott are by Jason Gray; all others are used by permission of Los Caminos.

Andy Holman is a St. Louis-based photographer, whose work has had a big impact on me. I first came across Andy’s art in an internet forum called “Classic Cameras”, of which I was just beginning to learn about. His photography has a very quiet, very introspective quality that instantly fascinated me. What’s more, Mr. Holman only shoots film; this, eschewing the popular trend in photography towards cameras with a digital sensor. This man is a master of what he does, and deserves some local love.

A short interview with Andy, and some more of his photos (all are untitled, BTW), after the jump.

ORJ- How/when were you introduced to photography?

AH- I always loved taking pictures as a kid, but I didn’t really get into it until I finished college, and ended up working for a photography lab. I would say that, a year after I started working there, I bought my first camera. That was about ten years ago.

I also had a friend who took really great photos, and I always found myself wanting to shoot with him. So, I would say it was a combination of that, and working somewhere where I was looking at photography all day long, that really got me interested.

ORJ- Why do you choose to continue shooting film?

AH- Well, at first, the main reason was because digital looked so bad… I was seeing weddings, senior portraits, families, just about every type of photography coming through the lab, and I was comparing the film images to the digital images. Plus, back then, before digital [took over], everyone was using medium format, so the difference was huge.

My job at the lab was “Digital Artist”, so I had to fix all the moire patterns, bad color, noise, and whatever else was thrown my way. I saw a lot of crap, and heard about even more. That didn’t help what I thought of digital.

Another reason why I didn’t really like digital is that I lost that job at the lab, due to digital… Now, it was my bosses’ fault a little, because we didn’t transform our lab into a digital lab as fast as others, but we were trying to hold on to what looked the best. We always took pride in giving the best products we could.

It was a great company to work for! So, in some way, as silly as it may seem, I didn’t like digital because I lost 3 weeks paid vacation, 2 weeks sick pay, flexible time shifts, and free processing and printing. It really was a kick-ass job, and digital, in a way, killed it for me.

Other reasons include the more obvious things, like the picture quality, and the cameras themselves are more to my liking, and film smells so good!

I must say that I don’t hate digital cameras as much as I used to, but I will never spend money on one, nor will I ever use one for anything that I’m shooting for myself.

ORJ- Do you think that your style of photography is linked to where you live?

AH- I think it is, a little bit. I’m a little on the shy side. For instance, I don’t like pointing my camera at people, and I don’t like being in the way. St. Louis City is great for that because there isn’t anybody here! The streets can be so bare, you might pass one or two people within a city block… I think I’m really comfortable shooting in STL. I had a much harder time shooting in places like Chicago or Roma, so I think, since I’m so comfortable here, it really helps my style come out. When it comes to nature, I feel like I can shoot in my style anywhere, but in [terms of] big cities, I am more comfortable in the less populated ones.

ORJ- What do you think is photography’s role in art/life?

AH- Honestly, that’s a pretty deep question for me. I don’t think too hard about things like that… My best reply is that photography plays a role in art just as much as any other medium. In life, it’s getting a little out of hand, with all of the digital camera phones and all that jazz. It doesn’t really bother me anymore, but it’s really crazy… I do like, however, that people are taking pictures more now than ever before! That’s kinda exciting!

And here’s a pic of Andy, taken by Andy:

Chicago blogger and baker, Natalie Slater, escapes all stereotypes.  At a glance, you may think that you’ve got her all figured out, but spend an afternoon (or a week) reading through the content of her blog, BakeandDestroy.net, and you will surely reform your assumptions, time and again. Part of what you will uncover is that Natalie is a tech-savvy, self-promotion guru, a loving and supportive mother and wife, a veritable repository of counter-culture factoids, and a hell of a baker.

She is also a dear friend of mine, having put up with my disappearances and re-appearances over the years, and as such, has agreed to kick-start One Round Jack with the following question and answer session. When you are finished reading, be sure to check out her celebrated blog!

ORJ- Many people know you as the author of the Bake and Destroy blog, will you comment on the origins of your site and why cupcakes and punk rock make such a great pair?

NS- I’ve always been a baker.  When I was younger I was filling a simple need- making cookies and cakes with my mom was the simplest route to making my sweet tooth happy.  Then, when I got older and started really getting interested in making things myself, baking jumped out from all the other options… mostly because I can’t sew or draw or play any instruments.  After my son Teno was born, I was baking like crazy; every time he took a nap I was whipping something up in the kitchen.  I was looking for a way to keep up with friends and family who didn’t keep the same “mom schedule” I did (early mornings, 9pm bed time) so I started a hybrid personal journal/recipe blog.  Some of my updates were about Teno, and others were about the brownies I’d made.  Over time it got to be more and more about food, and I had to start Teno his own blog so he didn’t get lost in the recipes.

Teno- super handsome and defensive of his mom’s cupcakes; trust me, I know.

ORJ- I think that a lot of your readers look up to you because you always say what you think, which is maybe indicative of your trajectory in life (having less to do with what is expected of you and more to do with what you expect of yourself).  Do you agree, and if so, what advice can you offer someone else who is looking to take a less conventional path towards personal happiness and professional achievement?

NS- Well, thank you, I hope you’re right.  If you knew my mom, sister and grandma you’d know exactly where I got the balls to say what I think.  The women in my family have a proud history of telling it like it is.  The truth is, my expectations for myself are pretty high. I never smoke or drink, I don’t eat meat, I’m committed to a handful of non-profits I feel strongly about, I’m a loyal friend and devoted wife and mom.  I’m my own toughest critic and my biggest struggles come from me doubting myself when I need to tap into the confidence that I try to always exude.  So I don’t really need anyone else’s expectations, because mine are already tough.

I hear all the time from people who are hoping to achieve a certain goal despite their alternative education, unconventional style, etc., and my advice is always the same: hard work pays off.  Tattoos, no tattoos; Ivy league education or not, if you educate yourself on exactly what needs to be done to achieve your goals, set your personal expectations high, and work your ass off, only good things will
happen.

Natalie’s newest tattoo.  ”‘P.M.A.’ is ‘positive mental attitude’.  It’s
taken from a Bad Brains song, and it sums up my basic approach to
everything I do”

ORJ- How has becoming a mom changed your priorities/has becoming a mom changed your priorities?

NS- Being responsible for another person changes everything.  I probably would have been happy to keep working in restaurants, and spending all my money on shoes if Teno hadn’t come along.  I remember, right before his first birthday, we visited my grandparents in their retirement village in Florida.  We were having breakfast right on the water while my grandma contemplated a day of driving her golf cart around and maybe taking a nap and I thought to myself, “I want this.  I want to do something in life that allows me to do whatever I feel like doing when
I’m older.”  We got back to Chicago, took out two student loans and I worked my ass off for one year finishing my journalism degree.  I took everything I learned in my marketing classes and transformed myself from a blogger to a brand.  Then I used my personal brand to get myself magazine coverage, TV appearances, and more importantly, a job in marketing doing the same thing for other people’s brands.

ORJ- Your “brand” has always incorporated networking and image management, online and off.  Has being a mom affected this?  What do you think of the latent stereotype that suggests, “Mom’s aren’t feminists” (ie. stay at home mom, soccer mom, etc. and how these labels are viewed and used)?

NS- It’s cliche, but being a stay-at-home mom is the HARDEST job in the world. By the time my husband got home from work, I was physically exhausted and mentally drained.  From 5am until 6pm, my entire day was consumed with carrying around a 25 lb baby, feeding him, changing him, begging him to take a nap, cleaning up after him, doing laundry, paying our bills, running errands… I couldn’t wait to go back to some job and deal with my boss’ crap all day long.  If it meant being able to pee with the door shut, I was willing to do anything.  If the basic philosophy of feminism is that men and women are, and should be treated as equals, then yes, being a mom is definitely a radical, feminist action. I would happily put motherhood toe-to-toe with any traditionally masculine role. Lion tamer, professional wrestler, construction worker… you name it.  And to answer the first part of your question, I think being a real mom helped me to take what could have otherwise been a run-of-the-mill image: mouthy, tattooed girl… big deal, to something that people can relate to no matter what.  If you’re a foodie, you feel me.  A mom?  You get it.  A punk rocker?  You’ll get my jokes.  But that unavoidable “softening” effect having a kid has on most normal people definitely took me from what might have been an abrasive image to one that I think most people can relate to.

The Slaters.

ORJ- What was your experience like on the Food Network, and has being on television altered your status quo in any way?

NS- My first experience on TV was pretty major – I filmed a pilot for a show on Food Network called Cupcake Wars.  So I went from being a blogger who could say and do whatever she felt like, to a prop on set that had to say what I was told to say and wear what I was told to wear.  It was a rude awakening to say the least. Anything that might be funny or interesting about my personality was definitely
edited out by a handful of TV producers trying to make me what they wanted me to be.  In the end, they told me they needed a “Simon” to Sprinkles Cupcakes owner, Candace Nelson’s “Paula”, and I just wasn’t it.

Candace Nelson and Natalie.  Click pic for Candace’s site.

For the first time in my life I wasn’t a big enough asshole for someone, go figure.  But after that, I was on WTTW’s Chicago Tonight a few times – it’s a local news show, so it’s a far cry from the national spotlight of Food Network.  But they liked me for me, and I’ve really enjoyed every experience I’ve had there.  I just finished up some test reels for Super Fine Films, and they’re hoping to shop me around as a traveling food show host.  Being that I haven’t exactly become a household name yet, I don’t feel like any of the TV stuff has changed the way I do things on Bake and Destroy.  If anything, they’ve encouraged me to stick to my guns because the one time I didn’t (Cupcake Wars) was a total waste of time.

On the set of “Cupcake Wars”.

ORJ- Do you think that the internet is in a position to supplant television as the primary source of culture for Americans; has it already?  Or, do you see multiple platforms for delivering information (sometimes the same information) as continuing to coexist?

NS- Good question!  I do feel like more and more people are choosing the Internet over TV these days – most likely because it gives them a platform to be whoever they want, project whatever image they want to project… or just to be a voyeur and poke in and out of other people’s Internet lives.  There’s so much give and take online - whatever you put out there, even if it’s a status update to 15
Facebook friends, runs the potential for getting a reaction.  With television, at least right now, it’s still very much a “take” situation.  You just sit there and take it in.  Nothing you say, or think, or do changes the fact that Sam and Ronnie are fighting again and you’re sitting there watching it.  (And believe me, I watch it, so I’m not judging.)  I mean, they appeal to different personality types for sure – I’m very social, and I’ve always been online since my parents had Prodigy back in the day.  When something new comes out I have a profile on it before most people have even heard of it.  My husband Tony, on the other hand, can’t imagine why anyone would want to read his Tweets… or why he’d want to read anyone else’s. As much as I love the interaction you can get online, I do spend at least an hour a
day just sitting there mindlessly watching Andrew Zimmern eat something’s intestines or watching designers compete for Michael Kors’ approval.  I spend my entire day thinking and making decisions about things; I need that time where nothing I do matters.

ORJ- Can readers find your baked goods on sale anywhere in Chicago?

NS- Since I’ve become an office dweller, I’m not baking for any cafes anymore, but I do still take special orders once in a while.  I have secret donut shop plans in the works with a friend of mine, but we’re both going to focus on our day jobs for now, so if it happens, it can happen exactly the way we picture it.

ORJ- Here’s a game; hopefully, you’ll feel like playing.  After reading the following words, write what immediately comes into your mind after each one: a. The Chicago Bears, b. The Chicago Cubs, c. fake meat products, d. Gary, Indiana, e. Rahm Emanuel, f. The Willis Tower, g. your people

NS- The Chicago Bears – December 2005.  I was 9 months pregnant, standing
in the snow with my dad watching the Bears play the Packers.  Listening
to him heckle cheese-heads is one of my most cherished memories.  He
passed away in December 2010, so times like that are burned into my
brain forever.

The Chicago Cubs – A perfectly good reason to avoid the Lakeview
neighborhood all summer

fake meat products – a lot better now than they were when I first went
vegetarian

Gary, Indiana - never been, but I’m guessing they don’t have any
French patisseries I want to visit

Rahm Emanuel – maybe he can fix the potholes in the South Loop?

The Willis Tower - Sears Tower forever!

your people – “This one’s going out to all the scumbags, lowlifes and
outsiders… my kinda people!” - Blood for Blood ;)